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How Reliable are Skeptical Websites?

There is a battle of opinion raging across the Internet. On the one side are the Paranormal Experts. On the other side are the Skeptics.

Paranormal television entertainment has been very popular the past few years. It’s relatively cheap to produce and when done well combines the kinds of elements that make television interesting (historical anecdotes, drama) and emotionally attractive (heart-ripping stories of loss, families struggling against evil, etc.). You can find shows about haunted buildings, cryptozoological creatures (especially Bigfoot and his relatives around the world), UFOs (and ancient alien visitations), and psychics who do read people.

The Skeptic community, about which I know only a smidgen, have taken up the cause of debunking these TV shows because they are so popular. Skeptics are the self-appointed “fourth estate” of populism. They position themselves between a credulous general public and any generally exciting group of people who make claims about … stuff.

There is a difference between being skeptical about things and being A Skeptic. The Skeptics take their inspiration from the great debunkers of the 20th century, including James Randi (a professional stage magician who has challenged self-styled psychics and other people claiming to have special abilities to prove their talents are real through credible scientific investigation).

There is also a difference between being a Believer and someone who does stuff for entertainment (or, perhaps I should say someone who does stuff for money). For example, some of the best-known evangelists of the 20th century made millions of dollars either through television or road-show revivals, often engaging in practices that were intensely scrutinized and criticized. Some of those folks went to jail after their schemes fell apart.

But just because one person or even a hundred people are fakers doesn’t mean everyone is a faker. If you’re going to be skeptical about other people’s claims, you should allow for the possibility that they might be telling the truth. On the other hand, if in your devotion to skepticism you have become accustomed to whipping out a standard portfolio of plausible explanations as the basis of your debunkery, you have departed the path of being skeptical and firmly entrenched yourself in the world of polemic misrepresentation.

The self-styled Skeptic Community — like many other informal groups — has its extremists and its leftists and its rightists — so you can’t say that if one Skeptic has fallen into faux debunkery they all have but I have to admit that, through my friendship with Dr. Atlantis, host of the Monster Talk podcast (our friendship began over 20 years ago), I have learned a little something (but certainly not a whole lot) about the Skeptic Community. I know they exist, I know they have at least one annual conference (TAM, or The Amazing Meeting), I know they have little niche specialties (like cryptozoology, psychic stuff, UFOs and aliens, etc.), and I know they don’t always agree on methods, motivations, and means.

To speak of “the Skeptic Community” as such may be a disservice to many deserving folk who try hard and remain aware of the pitfalls of doctrinalism. Doctrinalism creeps into every field of endeavor; it becomes the status quo that encapsulates and sustains popular opinion. For example, Newtonian Physics (also called Classical Mechanics) was, for a couple of centuries, the foundation of modern scientific exploration of the universe and its properties. Eventually new theories of physics were proposed that looked beyond Newtonian Physics. These new theories took time to win acceptance because doctrinalism had set in (and still runs through) the phyics community.

We all adhere to some form of doctrine. If you have no personal doctrine you have no personal beliefs — nothing is the foundation of your universe (the way you see and interpret things around you). When you are able to set aside your personal doctrinalism and evaluate a new idea, open to the possibility of being persuaded to accept the new idea, you are overcoming an innately conservative part of human nature. This is often a healthy choice, but sometimes being open to too many new ideas leads you down the wrong path.

That’s a lot of preamble, I know. But I need to explain that I am not challenging anything in particular about the doctrines of standard Skepticism. They may or may not be right. Nor am I challenging (or supporting) anything in particular about the doctrines of the Paranormalists. Both groups have their ideas and their arguments and they may be locked in ideological battle with each other for the next 10,000 years.

Still, I have seen (what for me is) an increase in references to skeptical Websites that make what I consider to be dubious attempts at debunkery. Debunkery is the art of refuting someone else’s argument or presentation. It does not necessarily have to prove anything although if you allege that someone is a fake you should back up that up with proof. Acceptable proof (in my book) would be something like a scientific investigation or test. Unacceptable proof is a litany of plausible explanations that you obviously fall back upon because you have had a conversation so many times you have (either consciously or subconsciously) refined your responses to an efficient selection of talking points.

Again, this happens to all of us, throughout all walks of life. The fact I have seen this on some Skeptic Websites doesn’t mean it’s not happening on Paranormal Websites (in fact, there is a whole lexicon of stock words and phrases you can expect to find on most paranormal Websites, so they have the same issue with their arguments).

What leads me to write all this is a truly random visit to Dr. Karen Stollznow’s debunking articles on her Website (they were originally published in Skeptic Magazine). Who is Karen Stollznow? Well, you can read about her on her Website. I only just heard about her (I think) today when I saw Daniel Loxton retweet one of her Tweets. I learned of Daniel from my friend Dr. Atlantis and followed Daniel’s Twitter account. He strikes me as a level-headed, fair-minded individual who — while obviously remaining unconvinced about many cryptid claims — acts like he would love to find scientifically verified proof that Bigfoot exists.

When Mr. Loxton shares a link to a Website I am about 50% likely to click on it and see what he thought was interesting. When he engages with his fellow Skeptics on Twitter, I occasionally check them out to see who they are and what roles they take on in the Skeptic community. And that is how I came across Karen Stollznow. For all I know she is the Grand High Muckety Muck of Skepticism and I am about to incite all sorts of vitriolic recriminations from hardended fans and believers. I hope not.

Reading Karen’s debunkery articles actually made me think of some of my own debunkery in the search engine optimization field. I write the SEO Theory blog and I sometimes find myself rolling my eyes at what I perceive to be the utter nonsense that people engaged in Internet marketing tend to believe and share. I often call it that, too (along with “total crap”, “ridiculous garbage”, and maybe a few other choice words). I can be vitriolic, too, although it’s rarely my intention to do that. It’s just that you see the same flawed thinking over and over again and eventually you just want to line these people up against the wall and slap some sense into them…but I digress.

My point is that I recognize the style of trite, complacent, unscientific debunkery because I have caught myself engaging in it from time to time. And I must say that I was rather surprised to find that kind of debunkery on Karen’s Website. Here are a few examples:

Kids of the Cloth

Her first article takes on populist child preachers and faith healers. To read this article and nothing else, one might conclude that all these kids are being raised by unscrupulous parents who only care about the money they can make. That is NOT what the article says, but it doesn’t leave room for the possibility that there may indeed be some truly gifted children who are doing God’s work (although many Skeptics are unapologetic atheists, one does not have to be an atheist to be a Skeptic). Are there such kids out there? I don’t know. I haven’t tried to look.

Although the article looks in detail at the career of one such child star of the revival circuit who eventually documented his own fakery (on film) in the early 1970s, it mentions other names of once well-known child preachers, as well as some recent additions to the corps. A credentialed scientist and researcher, Karen Stollznow mentions that there have been about 500 of these kids over the past few centuries — as best as can be determined by careful research, I presume — and that the phenomenon is by no means limited to religious groups. She specifically calls out some of the “reality” shows that feature children.

The criticisms are plausible and obviously backed up by verifiable facts. Nonetheless, she hasn’t disproven the idea that a child may be doing God’s work. Rather, the article cites no such proof and makes no such claim but it does conclude with a very stark admonition and warning:

Child preaching should be considered a form of child abuse because these kids are robbed of their child- hood. They are exploited by their parents for fame and fortune, as demonstrated by Marjoe’s experiences. It comes as no surprise that prodigy preachers are often the children of preachers. They are trained to parrot scripts and mimic the language and gestures of adult preachers. These kids are not compelled to preach by the Holy Spirit. They are groomed for God.

I am inclined to agree that if someone is taking their child around the country or the world, putting on shows, selling tickets, and otherwise raking in tons of money, they probably are not trying to do God’s work. But a casual reader can come away from this article convinced that all such children must be fakes.

People love to challenge ideas by looking for flaws in them. For example, if we propose that a child may indeed be selected to do God’s work, disbelievers might ask, “Why does God need to use a child to do his work?” This is a disarming question designed to make God look like a child abuser, which really ignores the whole point of “what is God’s work”?

God’s work might consist of nothing more than living your life as a normal child, filled with love and awe for God, and treating other people with respect. That alone is asking a lot of a child but if there is a child whose heart is filled with that kind of love 24 hours a day, 365 days a year, then who is to say that God doesn’t have a hand in blessing that personal with a gentle spirit?

You cannot disprove the existence of God with clever questions any more than you can prove God exists by putting a child on a stage and claiming s/he is doing God’s work. Technically, God’s work can be anything that demonstrates God’s love, and doesn’t have to include anything outside of a normal daily routine. But let’s move on.

Long Island Medium

Theresa Caputo is a New Yorker of Italian descent. She effuses warmth, energy, and stoic personality. She is the perfect star of almost any kind of television show. She just happens to claim to be a psychic medium. Karen Stollznow runs down the basic elements of the show (Theresa living her life and breaking into spontaneous “readings” when she meets random people). While I have never seen a child preacher in person (or even on TV, as best I can recall) I have seen Theresa’s TV show. It’s entertaining, much like Cake Boss or Dinner: Impossible, or maybe like Real Alien UFO Hunters of the Apocalypse (Hollywood — see me for film rights on that last one).

Is Theresa Captuo a real psychic? I dunno. How can you tell from a TV show whether someone is actually hearing details from the dead and departed? Oddly enough, just today I ran into a woman in a store who was traveling across country. She claimed to be a prophet from God and she told me that I had recently moved across the country for “work and comfort”. That’s pretty close (in fact, I barely said a word to the lady — she could not have known my personal history or inferred it from anything I said). Is she a prophet? I don’t know — that’s not enough time to apply the Biblical test of prophecy.

But what my experience tells me is that people do apparently talk to total strangers and reveal to them what they feel or believe may be a message from some other intelligence. That part of Theresa’s show seems plausible enough, but for all I know it could be staged. After all, even good science may restage a well-known experiment to demonstrate what we have learned about the universe. I remember my college Physics professor firing little metal balls across the classroom to demonstrate some (by now ancient) experiment that proves something about gravity, inertia, etc. In other words, staged or scripted re-enactment doesn’t invalidate anything although it should certainly be disclaimed as such if you present it on television.

The cable TV industry has taught us to believe that “reality show” stars have camera crews follow them around all day long, filming everything that happens, and then they just condense the “story” of the week down to a few key scenes (interspersed with some commentary from the stars) that explain everything. In reality, reality shows need your permission to use any footage of you. If you are standing in a store and someone with a camera crew comes up to talk to you, you have the right to talk to that person “off camera”. They have to get a release from you in order to use your footage as part of their entertainment. The only exceptions to this rule I have seen have been on police-based reality shows, where bystanders’ faces are blurred to protect their identities because the shows are essentially “reporting the news”.

One of the criticisms Dr. Stollznow aims at Theresa Caputo is as follows:

Of course, these are just cold readings of stereotypical subjects; usually older ladies who are asked, “Did your mother/father pass?” Obviously, she/he had, so Caputo proceeds to share a stock message, such as she “loves you”, he has “found peace” or he is telling you it’s time to “move on”. Alternatively, Caputo performs the same tricks for groups, like a kind of psychic Tupperware party. As believers, these people are pushovers, and with a larger pool of subjects she never fails to strike with questions like, “Did someone here lose a brother?” Making her task even easier still, she never guesses the name or the initials of the deceased. To “validate” contact, Caputo makes vague references that have the appearance of being specific; special songs, handwritten letters, and items of clothing and jewelry. Those read are interviewed afterwards, gushing that they are indebted to Caputo for helping them come to terms with the death of their loves ones.

This paragraph represents a great deal of thought and analysis, perhaps by an entire generation of historians, scientists, and other Skeptics who have observed psychic fakery in a thousand venues. There are parlor tricks you can learn (from stage magic handbooks, for example) that help you elicit critical information from people so that you can “read” them. These parlor tricks are a common gimmick used in movies and scripted TV dramas that present you with “psychics” who are eventually unmasked (or who disclaim themselves).

I don’t watch every episode of Long Island Medium but I have watched a few. It’s hard to say how generic Theresa gets with these readings. Sometimes she brings up details that (to my untrained eyes/ears) sound like they could not have been gleaned beforehand. But I have no way of knowing.

What we can say about the show is that it doesn’t prove Theresa’s claims to be a medium. What we can say about Karen’s article is that it doesn’t prove that Theresa’s claims are false. A little further on the article takes on a “skeptic challenge” in which Theresa converts one or more skeptics into believers using what may be a strategy that is sometimes called “sleight of hand” (magicians Penn and Teller love to explain this kind of stuff in detail).

Of course, when you have only 30 minutes (less time for commercials) to tell a story, you’re not going to include all the details of the story. If we judged the average news story on CNN or PBS by this kind of critical thinking we would have to charge all journalists with being frauds and amateurs because they don’t include all the details, the research, and the facts. They are (shamefully) just summarizing what happened for their audiences.

The lack of depth in a presentation doesn’t prove that flim-flammery is involved. On the other hand, you’re not going to prove many claims if you don’t provide an in-depth presentation loaded with verifiable facts and research. In fact, this is a criticism that is now being directed by more and more people at the immensely popular TED talks (where a featured speaker gives a 10-15 minute presentation to a large audience). TED talks are formulated to introduce people to new ideas, new ways of thinking. They are not scientific presentations intended to prove anything, so criticizing a “reality show” medium for not providing conclusive proof every week that, yes, the dead really were speaking to her in a bake shop (or wherever) doesn’t really even amount to effective debunking.

The article just goes through the motions of debunkery, cycling through well-worn arguments in too brief a fashion to be either convincing or sound. Sure, these readings could be that shallow but I wasn’t there and I don’t know what all was said. It’s entertainment to me, nothing more. I have no idea of what Theresa Caputo thinks of these shows.

You know, when Michelle Berry was found alive in Cleveland, OH, thousands of people railed against self-styled psychic Sylvia Browne, who had told Michelle’s mother Louwana Miller “she’s not alive” in 2004 (about a year before Louwana died). Oh, when Michelle was found alive the TV news broadcasters flooded the airwaves with quick summaries of the Montel Williams show where this occurred. Sylvia Browne got some other details wrong (like saying the abductor was young) but she got some details right (like saying there was only 1 abductor, not 3 as the police suspected — and describing him as “Cuban”, although technically he was from Puerto Rico — but most non-Hispanics seem to struggle with differentiating between Hispanic groups). She also told Louwana that she would only see her daughter again “on the other side”, which sadly turned out to be true.

While the story of Ariel Castro’s victimization of Michelle Berry and two other young women is horrifying and just makes your heart reach out to those families whose lives he tore apart, you have to question the criticism being directed at a self-styled psychic. We believe our scientists even when they are wrong; and yet we demonize people who claim to have incomplete information about things far off in time and space. That’s pretty cold.

Which is not to say that I believe Sylvia Browne was psychic. Ironically one could argue that she got more details right about Michelle Berry than usual: she attracted so much criticism that at least one attempt to analyze her revelations produced very unfavorable results. Of course, people can differ with some of the conclusions in that study but it’s hard to come away from the analysis thinking anything other than that — if Sylvia Browne was psychic — her convictions were much stronger than whatever signals she was tuned into.

But what does it mean to be “psychic”? If we assume for the sake of discussion that people’s consciousness (their souls or spirits) survive the body after physical death, and that they can sometimes communicate with sensitive living beings, then how reliable does the receipt of those communications have to be in order for someone to be “psyhic”?

You don’t hear well in real life, so why should you be expected to hear well when someone who is dead is talking to you across whatever? The basis for legitimate skepticism of psychic capabilities is that we don’t have a science that can verifiably validate these claims. That is, there is no class of established scientific principles (regarding life after death, non-physical communication between two intelligences, and sensitivity to extra-corporeal essences and communications) that allows us to determine if psychics can even exist, much less ferret out fakers from real psychics.

If psychic abilities do exist, though, then we would be reasonable to assume they probably fall into similar patterns of distribution in the population as other innate abilities. That is, I would expect to see graduating degrees of sensitivity in people rather than an Either/Or division of the Haves and Have Nots simply because so far in our experience Nature has favored such distributions. Furthermore, to differentiate between fakers and real psychics you have to devise tests that filter out personal conviction and simple delusion.

Delusional people can be examined and diagnosed by certified psychiatrists and psychologists — but did you know that many people in the hard sciences think of psychology as quackery? Never mind cold fusion, which has been an embarrassment to many of the same critics of the psychological and sociological fields of study. We can’t even agree on which sciences are real sciences. Human behavior is filled with many exceptions. Making sense of those exceptions has led to critical rebuke of the idea that “norms” exist. Nonetheless, we have established that human behavior (and the behavior of animals) can be studied and catalogued and organized.

Disbelief does not disprove anything any more than belief proves something.

Possessed Possessions

Next in the line of articles is a questioning of the motives and methods of John Zaffis, the “Haunted Collector”, who inevitably finds something to take home with him in every episode. I shudder to think what such skeptical thinking would have made of the Quinn Martin TV show from the 1960s, The F.B.I., or Police Story from the 1970s. These shows were supposed to be taken directly from law enforcement files (dressed up for dramatic presentation). Oddly enough, they always caught the bad guys.

And yet, in real life, bad guys sometimes get away. In fact, airplane hijacker D.B. Cooper is a frequent subject of conspiracy theory television shows, real life crime shows, and similar cable TV fare that competes with the paranormal programming the Skeptic community loves to argue with. Why does no one complain about how television law enforcement always wins?

I don’t know if spirits haunt objects. I’m not sure I care. As paranormal TV shows go this one is less entertaining for me than some others. I don’t watch it very often at all. One of the criticisms directed at Mr. Zaffis is that he always takes the stuff back to his museum, stating that “taking these items because they are ‘haunted’ amounts to a form of theft”. An unusual market in supposedly haunted items is also discussed (not really related to the show, but leading up to the criticism of the show in a sort of “guilty by connection” argument).

What I think is most interesting in this article is that apparently someone associated with the show alleged (privately) that the show producers sometimes staged effects to mislead the cast. Hence, if you cannot impugn the sincerity of the believers, it may help to impugn the process of the television show. But does that prove or disprove anything about whether artifacts may be possessed or haunted? Of course not. We remain without any credible scientific evidence one way or another. The article concludes with the very strident: “‘Haunted’ objects seem to only be haunted by stereotypes, memories and a belief in the paranormal.”

Hard to say. This is debunkery that fails to prove or disprove anything relevant to the topic. That someone is willing to sell you a fake Brooklyn Bridge doesn’t mean there is no Brooklyn Bridge. By the way — did you know that the London Bridge was sold in 1962 to an Arizona developer who moved it to Lake Havasu? He used it to draw people to a new city he built there. So don’t allow yourself to disbelieve in the buying and selling of bridges just because no one has bought and sold the real Brooklyn Bridge.

Can TV Shows Really Tell the Truth?

In 2011 I interviewed Tolkien scholar Michael Drout, who mentioned that a producer for a television show tried to convince him to say on screen that J.R.R. Tolkien took “orcs” from the Latin word orcus. Officially, Tolkien scholars have not formed a consensus on the probable origin of Tolkien’s name for bad guy troops. Such a consensus may never be formed, especially as people who personally knew and discussed The Lord of the Rings with Tolkien gradually die and become inaccessible to further research.

Television documentaries are often criticized by scientists and historians for condensing, sometimes even changing or omitting important information. The documentary film-makers may be under pressure to produce good entertainment; perhaps they have been taught to make entertainment more important than education. Maybe there is a mix in this as in all other things, with some documentaries being more complete and reliable than others.

I cringe every time I see Cake Boss because the cakes are made by big guys who don’t seem to wash their hands (on screen). I assume, however, that the bakery is operated according to appropriate health codes and that there are signs in all the restrooms that say, “Employees must wash their hands before returning to work”. I certainly hope so. I am sure the people making the cakes wash their hands but I would have to force myself to eat one of those big display cakes.

Television is not the best medium for science. When you produce completely honest, accurate, detailed television you get C-SPAN and you hear all the coughing, see all the long quiet interludes, and you know — if you have ever attended a conference, a hearing, or even traffic court — that real life is long, boring, and oppressive when you’re doing something you don’t want to do or it’s long and intermittently boring and exciting when you’re doing something you DO want to do.

Riding the ski lift isn’t as much fun for people as throwing themselves down the sides of dangerous mountains covered with deadly pine trees at 60 miles per hour. Climbing the stairs is not as much fun as throwing yourself off a perfectly good tower (with a rope attached to your body). I have done one of these things. Actually, I’ve done most of them. If I were to make a reality show of my life, I would definitely edit out the boring moments.

If I were to make a television show intended to teach people a lesson about something, I would not leave the audience hanging.

So the debunkery directed at the paranormal shows — while well-intentioned — fails to fairly concede that the medium defines some of the limitations of the shows. Maybe it’s all fake. Maybe there is something really going on. We cannot tell from simply watching the shows what is real and what is fake; which, of course, is why people who have studied these matters in more depth feel compelled to say something.

But when you set out to debunk someone else’s presentation, you should be clear on whether you are just summarizing your arguments (as Karen Stollznow does on her Website) or whether you are trying to dis/prove something. If you are not clear about that then you are treating your audience no better than the things you seek to debunk.

The average visitor to any given Website is inexpert in whatever that Website specializes in. People will take what you say at face value if they have not already formed their own opinions, and if your arguments are plausible. But plausibility can be just as fake and quackish as outright fraud and hoaksterism.

At the end of the day you cannot judge the reliability of all Skeptic Websites in general on the basis of just a few examples, but one should definitely take all Websites that purport to explain things with a grain of salt. Skepticism must keep itself honest with honest self-directed skepticism. It doesn’t matter if you’re part of the Skeptic community or just someone who tries to debunk egregious claims in your own specific field of expertise; if you’re just debunking things with a litany of plausible explanations you are really just spinning your idealogical wheels and hoping that no one calls you out on the parlor trick.

14 thoughts on “How Reliable are Skeptical Websites?

  1. Your approach to analyzing these articles is ignorant and one-sided. First off, they are short opinion pieces written for skeptical audiences. She does not have to go forth and “prove” the many things that are accepted by many skeptics (there are strong reasons that these things are accepted as well. Much testing of psychics has been done and no real psychic has EVER been found). If one is already an Atheist and is speaking to other Atheists, then they don’t have to start off a conversation disproving the existence of God. That would make for very cumbersome and boring conversation and not much new would ever be said. Just because you hide under the guise of being a skeptic doesn’t make you one. It is painfully obvious that you haven’t done your homework on these subjects and just want something to tear apart so you can sound superior. Typical behavior of someone with low self esteem. Take into consideration that I have not debunked the idea that you are a confident, self assured man, you just don’t act like it.

    1. “First off, they are short opinion pieces written for skeptical audiences…”

      When published in a Skeptical magazine, yes. When placed on a Website where anyone may find them, no. The Internet is not kind to insularity.

      When you deliver a message that is self-confident in its own pomposity, it is only fair for people to shoot it down.

      “…She does not have to go forth and ‘prove’ the many things that are accepted by many skeptics…”

      No one is arguing that the Skeptics who have been studying these matters for years don’t have their facts in place. But when you present your opinions to the general public without supporting information you’re no more credible or reliable a source of information than anyone else.

      There is no private “Skeptic Web” (that remains accessible to everyone else) where only the insiders are allowed to read what is written.

      Remember that when you live in a glass house, someone you don’t know is going to peek through your walls. If you really want to get your message across, you need to be as convincing as possible.

      The articles I analyze above are little more than tropes chanted for the choir, and no one who is new to all these controversies should be swayed by them.

      1. Wrong. Anyone with a brain that desires to be inspired to seek more information should be swayed to do so. Just because you are staunch does not make you right. I would love for you to truly “debunk” these articles with proof that the things you argue with are in fact real. Show me that God speaks through these abused children and scientifically demonstrate to me that ANY psychic is real. Your pomposity is far worse than any she displays and I am here to peek through your glass walls as well. Practice what you preach.

        1. “Anyone with a brain that desires to be inspired to seek more information should be swayed to do so.”

          No. To a devoted member of the club like you, the articles are fine. To a stranger who knows nothing of these matters there is nothing in the articles that justifies the conclusions.

          They’re all bullshit.

          You don’t get a free pass on logic due to the strength of your conviction and vitriol. If you want to make a case for debunkery it needs to be logical and supported by facts.

          There is too much self-assumption in those articles. For the casual visitor, it would be best if the page were opened with a disclaiming paragraph that says something to the effect of “these articles were written only to summarize established viewpoints and do not provide sufficient proofs to serve as legitimate unbiased debunkery. Read them as an introduction to the opinions of some who disagree with the matters at hand but you should do further research before drawing your own conclusions.”

          That’s just a suggestion, but it should serve as a good model.

          If people in the Skeptic community don’t distinguish between dogma and legitimate attempts at debunkery then no one should really pay attention to what they have to say.

          1. “If people in the Skeptic community don’t distinguish between dogma and legitimate attempts at debunkery then no one should really pay attention to what they have to say.”

            That is exactly what the majority of us feel about you and your approach.

            For me, you remain unconvincing. Thank you for allowing me to express my opinion. I have to turn my attention to more important things than your world view. I appreciate your right to have that world view because it stimulates conversation for those who need it to aid them in creating their own.

            For me, you strengthened my view that I am seeing things correctly.

          2. “That is exactly what the majority of us feel about you and your approach.”

            The four or five people commenting on your Facebook page hardly constitute a majority of anything, so be honest here. You’re Karen’s husband (I have been told) and you’re understandably upset that someone has called your wife’s articles out for not being scientific. I appreciate your loyalty to your spouse but your feelings are seriously clouding your judgement.

            Calling me names, telling other people to call me names, and alleging I believe things I have not claimed to believe just make you look angry and unprofessional.

            Science doesn’t win because someone believes it’s right. You’re not speaking for science.

            People surf the Internet all day long and they come across all sorts of absurd claims and hopefully most of them are naturally skeptical about those claims. If you put yourself in the position of debunking other people’s beliefs, though, you’re taking on a very powerful emotional battle and your chances of swaying the majority of convinced believers are pretty slim.

            Nonetheless, if you want to sway the unconvinced that your point of view is the right or better one, you have to do better than to use faux logic or simply to say, “Well, we did the research but this is just a short article and it should be good enough.”

            That’s NOT good enough.

            I hope when you calm down you’ll be able to see things more clearly. You’re certainly not being rational right now, but like I said, that’s understandable.

  2. I am Karen’s husband. Something I never intended to hide or I would have used a different name and email address. I am calling you out on your bullshit and not just defending her out of loyalty. Your approach to life is ridiculous if you feel every statement has to reference all previous knowledge. If you are interested in something said, we live in a time when information is free and plentiful. Go do a google search if you question my assertions or opinions on a subject. I have no need to hold your hand through it all. When an article is bound to a certain word count and she reposts the article in its original state, you think that she needs to now rewrite it to contain all of human knowledge on the subject? You were quite nasty to Karen in your posting on this subject and now you act like you are above all of my stupidity. I am still waiting for your proof that psychics exist. Where is God in all of this? Come on, play by your own rules!

    1. “I am calling you out on your bullshit and not just defending her out of loyalty. Your approach to life is ridiculous…”

      Sorry, Matthew, but that just proves my point. You’re now talking about “my approach to life” on the basis of one blog article and my responses to your personal attacks against me here and on your Facebook page.

      Surely you understand why people would not be inclined to take you seriously.

      I wasn’t nasty to Karen at all. I addressed the content of the articles, not the person writing them. That said, she has so far withheld comment and perhaps that is the better path to take — at least until your angry feelings die down.

      Your friends will support you and help you insult me on Facebook. There is no need to ask them to come here to do it. But you’re not making a very good impression for yourself by what you write here.

      1. You’re right. You read my comments only as you want to. I am wasting my time with you. I am not angry at all. I have been smiling the whole time as I write these comments. You avoid addressing my rebuttals and only concentrate on “how” you think I am behaving. Classic tactic, sir. Before you complain about skeptics talking about topics that have already been well researched with reiterating all of that research, you need to back up your claims as well. What ground do you have to stand on about psychics being real? I’m still waiting.

        1. Your rebuttals are nonsense. You’re putting words into my mouth and attacking me on the basis of wrong assumptions. I never said psychics were real at all.

          Using straw man arguments to disagree with someone only discredits any work you have done as a Skeptic.

  3. I thought your article addressed some interesting areas, and three main issues. One was how to best present counter-claims in a persuasive way, especially against ingrained beliefs. Another was why you felt one specific writer wasn’t doing this well. And the third, as best as I can state it, was why skeptics who question many extraordinary claims without testing them is not scientific, and not fair.

    As far as the latter, I did not see you address the concept of “Burden of Proof” anywhere in your article. Anybody can claim pretty much anything, but in real life we generally don’t ponder all claims with equal seriousness. Some things deserve more attention, consideration, and testing, and some do not. Our judgement and discernment concerning this process is something we hone over our lifetime. When claims involve what is seen to be a fringe belief, the burden of proof is no longer on those listening, but on those making the claim. So while I think you said there may be no way to test some of these claims, I would respond that there is no requirement to do so. The burden of proof is on those making them.

    You also went on to ask why we will more readily believe our scientists and not question why law enforcement always wins on tv? I’d would resond that the difference I see is that scientists do not prey on greiving individuals and charge them hundreds of dollars an hour for private readings. And for the question about the police on tv, that sounds like a fine thing to question to me. But I think it’s a mistake to even entertain fringe claims as being true, especially when they are being presented in a highly edited format on entertainment television.

    I agree that it is not easy to change a dearly held belief, and that only listing out reasons why those beliefs are wrong is generally not enough. But personally I don’t think presenting more studies, as detailed as they may be, will help sway an ensconced believer. I believe most are intelligent, honest people who are holding a belief for reasons OTHER than its provability. It may be part of their cultural or family environment, and it is more important for them to maintain those environments than question their beliefs. And that can be hard thing to argue.

    So I agree with you that the writer’s content was not enough to sway those strong believers, but I don’t know if it was meant to. However, I do think those articles might be very helpful to give a basic skeptical perspective to people that have not adopted that belief yet, and are searching for perspective.

    1. This is really an issue that, had I waited a few days, I could have addressed better on another blog (SEO Theory). I would have taken a much different approach. The whole Sketpic/Paranormal juxtaposition falls within the interests of some members of the science fiction community, though, and I needed to get the article done quickly.

      The problem with the presentation on Karen Stollznow’s site is that her articles — written for a very specific audience — are essentially published out of context on a general Website. It struck me (as an Internet theorist) that a person who knows nothing of these matters could come along, find these articles, and be persuaded by them without adequate evidence to show that there is essentially anything right about them (and I am not saying they are not right).

      This sort of thing happens all the time. People hear half the story and jump to conclusions. Once that happens it becomes difficult to explain the full story to them because we quickly integrate new ideas into our worldview, or what (some) psychologists call our “personal mythologies”. A mythology is a framework of explanations we use to understand the world. It’s not fantasy or imaginary or false — it is simply the lens through which we interpret what we see around us.

      The most hardened scientist in the world has a personal mythology. The most wild-eyed dreamer has a personal mythology. There are no exceptions.

      This matters to me because I have occasionally visited Skeptic Websites where they pass off misinformation as tried and true scientifically verified fact. Do they do that as much as the Paranormalists? I would be inclined to guess not, but there are a lot of logical flaws in the debates raging back and forth.

      As an example of the misinformation you may occasionally find on a Skeptic Website, I watched a video on Virtual Skeptics (no. 69 for those who are curious) where the participants laughed about the whole concept of modern virgin births. Apparently they don’t accept that a girl can become pregnant without full sexual penetration, and yet a girl CAN become pregnant without full sexual penetration if her partner ejaculates close enough to her vagina that his semen enters her. A virgin girl can become pregnant this way, and the data points from the study they were ridiculing support what probably happens with the few virgin births that happen: these girls may not know much about sex, they may be trying to practice abstinence, and they therefore don’t allow their boyfriends to penetrate them, but they nonetheless engage in non-penetrating sexual activity that results in the boys’ ejaculations.

      To suggest that a virgin cannot get pregnant in a public venue is a dangerous and irresponsible practice, and it underscores the fact that no one is right by virtue of their beliefs. Being an experienced Skeptic doesn’t make you right on any topic, and certainly isn’t an excuse for sharing nonsense that might lead someone to make an unfortunate life-affecting decision.

      This is about context, and presentation, as much as it is about fact-checking. I have gone back through the years and corrected errors of fact on my Websites when I have become aware of them but I cannot reverse whatever influences those errors of fact may have had on others who read my sites before I made the corrections.

      I have a lot of respect for people who want to protect the public from misinformation on all manner of topics, but none of us is immune from sharing views that are wrong.

      It’s not enough that you have the data hidden away somewhere, packed up nice and tidy. If you publish something on the Internet and you’re making extraordinary claims (such as “all [X] are fakes”) then it is incumbent upon you to back up those claims for the sake of the people who haven’t shared your journey with you.

      1. How on Earth is Karen’s website a general website? It takes two seconds of looking around to see that she is a skeptic that writes for skeptical publications. If someone is so wronged by their own inability to figure that out, I have nothing to say to them. It is also interesting that, to you, “all [X} are fakes” when none have been proven to be real- is more of an extraordinary claim than to say that [X] exists at all. All you manage to do here is type a lot of words and convince yourself that you are a clear thinking individual when in reality, you miss the point each time. Keep on comparing SEO and other computer concepts to real life. Sometimes it works incredibly well. Other times, it only works sometimes.

        1. “How on Earth is Karen’s website a general website?”

          It’s not a CLOSED Website with limited access. Anyone can potentially find it for all sorts of random queries, and I have no doubt that it probably IS found for all sorts of random queries.

          If someone is so wronged by their own inability to figure that out, I have nothing to say to them. It is also interesting that, to you, “all [X} are fakes” when none have been proven to be real- is more of an extraordinary claim than to say that [X] exists at all.

          Again, you put words into my mouth. Please stop with the faux arguments. My article is pointing out troublesome issues that are common across the Web but which, in the context of a community of people (Skeptics) who purport to be trying to help the credulous public steer clear of false claims, should be given some thought before placing content willy-nilly that anyone can find.

          You’re setting yourself above the judgment of others, and there’s no scientific basis for that. Accept the criticisms thoughtfully. I mean thoughtfully. How people are influenced on the Web is my area of expertise, and I can easily point you to articles on viral propaganda theory that help explain how these things progress. You should also read about Swarm Theory and Web Communities, not that I expect you to, but the articles are there for everyone.

          As long as you keep falsely accusing me of claiming things you think are untrue, you’re not going to learn anything from all this — and it’s obvious you need to learn a lesson here. There’s nothing scientific about attacking people who point out the flaws in your logic.

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